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Click here to post a commentSun. 08/24/08 04:53 PM
I empathise with you and your wife's challenges in getting your high school senior involved in something constructive outside of the house. Yours is also an important example / reminder that even in marriage, parents often face differences in parenting styles and expectations which can create the need for additional work to reaching a decision in how we effectively and cooperatively work together to parent our children and secure the best possible outcomes for their good.
I don't know all of the circumstances involved here but a couple of things come to mind. One is that, as with any teen, if they're sensing division between parents, in one way or another, it's going to be exploited. It's always ideal for children to experience parents, and parents and step parents as united in their expectations and it may be that if your wife and you are to far apart on the course you take to communicating them, he's not convinced that the two of you truly have similar convictions about him getting a job, or involved in some other constructive activity. Styles in parenting are usually going to be different. I'm of the opinion that they need to be but if tolerance for the outcome of what your trying to achieve is to much in contrast, children will sometimes experience that as one parent being significantly more invested in what is being asked of them, or demanded of their efforts than the other parent is. So make sure that your wife and you are at least on the same page about what you expect and the consequences your son will need to experience if he fails to make the efforts that is being asked of him. Your wife and you might even want to talk about your individual reasons for wanting to get him more involved in something so that you have further clarification and agreement in the common goal you each have for him.
Something you might then try in getting your son more invested in this effort is making him more responsible for outcomes. You or your wife or the two of you together might consider sitting down with him and clarifying what the two of you expect, why you expect it and then asking for his input in how he believes he might otherwise accomplish this and what he believes he can accomplish, securing a job, joining a social club, etc. Make a goal sheet and a contract between the three of you that includes everyone's part in assignments. Make sure the assignments / goals are concrete, measurable and easy to understand. Then, using numbers between one and ten, ask how sure he is that he can achieve what he is saying he will agree to do in each faze of the process. If he is scoring it to be low in his confidence to being able to accomplish some aspect of the process, explore with him as to why and ask that he identifies what it would take to be more confident. As always, you want to be sure that you and your wife reinforce his efforts with positives that mean something to him but additionally, that you are both in agreement, and then clear with your son that their will be specific consequences to his lack of efforts.
Something else that your wife and you might consider, and where you can learn further tips in these sort of parenting matters is enrolling in a "Love and Logic" parenting class. "Love and Logic" is a proven technique to helping parents work more effectively together in forming that afore mentioned united front and placing responsibility on their children for both achieving positive outcomes and or taking responsibility for the most natural consequences to problematic behavior. We're in the process of putting a L. and L. class together at "Dads and Moms of Michigan" but in the mean while, I highly recommend those classes that are already in place through Henry Ford Behavioral Services.
In closing, keep in mind too that depression is often a reason that teens are otherwise less than motivated to do more than play video games or spend their time sleeping and watching television. Again, I don't know the dynamics or circumstances but if you have any reason to believe your son might be depressed, and some times a simple asking of the question can clarify it, you should then consider taking him for an evaluation with a good and trained professional.
I hope this all works out and that you will keep us posted on how it's going.
Larry Herren, Farmington, MI
Sun. 08/24/08 09:53 AM
I'm re-married as is my wife. We get along great except when its an issue with a kids. We have one kid remaining at home, a high school senior. A student but no interests, hobbies, friends, sports, nothing. Just school. Even the neighbors joke that he doesn't ever venture outside.
Well, I insisted he get a job this summer to keep himself busy. He faked looking. Everytime I offered to help he disappeared or made up a lie like he had to study chemistry. Yes, in the summer. He's a bad liar.
I'm at the point now where I've cut him off from TV, his hot button. TV is what he does all day and this is causing a big stir with the mother. She agrees he needs to get moving in life but she isn't a fan of tough love. I'm brutally honest, she's in total denial. We don't know what's going thru the boy's head but he seems to have an extreme aversion to work, excercise and the outside world.
Now of course I'm in the dog house bigtime. Any advice?
Farmer Jim, Livonia, mi
Tue. 08/19/08 04:01 PM
Robert, Good to see you back on the blog. I want to join the many others, both those who have written in here as well as the hundreds, maybe thousands who I know are out there and have lent their support when I say to you; good job and God bless each one of you for what you do.
The equal parenting bike trek and Washington D.C. Rally are a huge success and they continue to grow. Your personal dedication is a bench mark and truly inspires. I hope you'll continue to be a regular here with us at this site.
Press on Rob.
Larry Herren, Farmington, MI
Tue. 08/19/08 03:22 AM
Dear Sassy,
I think you are right on the target. How do we get these men to pay attention to what the good dads are saying and doing? Perhaps we need announcements on the T.V. to get their attention. I have the ex who chooses to come and play with his kids when it's convenient for him. They do need education, so where do we begin?
Karen Rist, Berkley, MI
Mon. 08/18/08 12:23 AM
Heck no he didn't fail-he made a tough decision between two options and chose at the last minute to spend the holiday with his family-bravo!!
rwhite, grand rapids, mi
Sun. 08/17/08 05:59 PM
Congratulations on a job well done! If we must do this next year (hopefully it won't be necessary) let's have streaming video. You can use my website. thank you for your efforts. teri http://www.sharedparentingworks.org
teristoddard@gmail.com, concord, ca
Fri. 08/15/08 10:50 PM
Larry, I truly appreciate your heartfelt comments. You are good father, a good man, and a good friend.
I am struck by your feeling as though you might need to apologize for maybe offending someone by simply saying that you think that men have been taught to feel badly about being men. After all it is by being men that we cause trouble. Where in the world did we ever get this idea? Who would have taught us that we are somehow responsible to suffer the sins of our fathers? And by the way just what exactly were the sins anyway? And just how long or when will the sins be absolved? I for one do not feel the need to apologize for being a man. I certainly have done many things that i do not feel good about and have even apologized for some of them (ha ha). But i can honestly say that I can not remember ever apologizing form being a man and would not allow anyone to compel me to do so. I suppose that is what was at the heart of my Where's the Beef? post. The things that we men tolerate out of some misguided/unfounded sense of guilt and shame is unacceptable. Women have long learned not to readily accept gender stereotypes. I think it is time for us as men to learn from them and stop apologizing for our Manhood.
rfox, new orleans, la
Fri. 08/15/08 10:26 PM
Tammy,
You are correct in stating that assumptions abound. Further you are correct to caution those who extrapolate from there own limited experience (as well as from a non representative group) and apply their perspective their experience onto others as though they should have the same perspective of their experience. It may in fact not be. Sassy's experiences are hers and hers alone. Her perspective of the reality of her experience may or may not be accurate. Perspective is not reality. It is just that.. perspective defined as ...a particular evaluation of a situation especially from one persons point of view. I too cautioned against making broad statements about fathers in general from limited experiences and possibly skewed perspectives. I cautioned others about doing the same. Statistics once deemed reliable and valid are not mine, yours or anyone's. They are also not open for much modification given one's particular perspective. They simply are what they are whether you like them or not. In my review of the responses what I am seeing are people responding by offering their own experience as proof that stereotypical statements are typically unfounded(my perspective). I am not sure if you thought that I was indicating that when there is an uninvolved father there must be a mother who is acting as a barrier. If so you either misinterpreted my statement or I did not make myself as clear as I intended (which way you see that is surely influenced by your perspective..ha ha). But to be clear I challenge any parent to honestly consider what they do on a daily basis to foster an encourage their child(ren) to have an open relationship with the other parent. If a parent fails to do whatever it takes to engender a relationship the other then that parent is acting as a barrier.
And thats MY perspective.rfox, new orleans, la
Fri. 08/15/08 04:16 PM
The four Michigan Equal Parenting Bike Trek riders arrived in Washington DC. It is a great feat for these riders to do to draw attention to the need for Equal Parenting. We have allowed the forces of Planned Parenthood and several other organizations to let the single parent household become the future of the American society. In the mean time we have allowed the decline of social mortality to the point that young woman are planning to get pregnant during high school.
This does not mean that the young mother will graduate or attend college but will usually become enrolled in the public welfare system. The cost to Michigan taxpayers for the 2004 year was $302 million. The risk of a child dying from a young parent is greater than a mature adult. The first year of a child is the greatest for death. In 2004, there were 984 infant deaths. Nationally the cost of Child abuse and Neglect is $103 billion a year. We need to restore some type of family unit and the future is shared parenting. If the marriage and divorce rates are not almost the same, marriage would be the solution.
. Not having fathers has reduced in the African American community to role model of a father who makes sure his son graduates from high school and college. The example is Dennis Archer, whose father had only a third grade education but made a point that his son would attend college. The Detroit high schools are graduating only 20% of the ninth grade African American males. Somehow, other organizations have made it their business to destroy the chance for the African American community and others to have the benefit of two parents involved in the upbringing of Michigan children. Passing Michigan legislation like House Bill 4564 and House Joint Resolution NN will start a change for the better.
GeneseeFather, Flint, MI
Fri. 08/15/08 02:22 PM
Sassy Single,
I want to thank you for taking the time to share your experiences and perspectives. Again, they differ from mine, and apparently those others who have responded but as noted, sharing and learning is what this site is all about and what we parents need to always be willing to do. So as promised, I want to respond to your post personally.
I want to start by saying I agree with Tammy's belief, It's likewise been my experience that most parents want the best for their children but far to many "allow a myriad of their own personal problems to get in the way." I also appreciate and value Tammy's balanced and insightful reminder that we need to respect the fact that each of us have our own personal experiences that fuel and shape our individual perspectives of "reality." But that being noted, our reality by it self is not enough to assume that it is the reality of others, on a wider scale. Statistics, for example, show evidence that most people move on and get along in co parenting of their children and as Rfox correctly noted, they also show that most father's are, in fact, motivated to actively participate in parenting their children. Further, I believe Rfox is right to challenge you, and everyone of us to ask ourselves, daily, what we've done to actively involve a willing and fit co parent in the lives of our children because the truth of the matter is that children need both. What they don't need is competition for control of their lives, or to feel like they're in the middle and have to take sides. I can assure you as a parent, and a clinician, nothing screws up a child emotionally faster than involving them in conflicting dynamics between parents. I understand in what you've written that you understand that and haven't done it but there remains far too many that do.
In closing, I really am sorry that per what you're communicating, the father of your children isn't "manning up" and being what his children need. Please understand that me and mine have as little tolerance, perhaps less, for that sort of behavior as you do. Why you might ask? One reason is because we understand that when a mom wants to challenge or frustrate a dad's efforts to be an equally involved parent, He's made to fight for his rightful role in a historically gender bias system that in part, is maintained by stereo types and agendas that dads like you're describing only serve to feed rather than contradict. Policies need to change and I can't help but wonder how many more dads would be actively involved if an honest and clear message in our society and courts was sent that their active parental involvement was needed and valued rather than the perception, that far to many are left with, that their time is of secondary importance to their paycheck. And in no way do I rationalize or justify their doing so but do some men grow resentful of this and bail, chase new dreams or start new families and leave their children as casualties? No question that they do but this isn't rocket science, if you want someone, or a group of people to participate, make it inviting. And while education for dads and mom's alike is great, it's needed and I support it, in and of it self it's not enough. Law is what we live by. If an actively involved dad is truly important to his children's wellbeing, and I would challenge anyone to demonstrate that he isn't, then we need laws and policies that reflect that understanding and provide that message."
I hope you'll stay "sassy" Sassy but don't let a little attitude that you've used to survive over ride your ability to look outside your own situation. As CLM in Brighton notes, most dads' love their children dearly and would walk through hell with a can of gas for them. I love this analogy. I don't know if I've ever read one that describes what I'm willing to do, or at times have already had to do but will always be willing to do for my son. Dads are parents too and kids need both. Tell your children's dad you understand that and send him to us for some further education, we would be privileged to work with him.
Larry H, Farmington, MI
Thu. 08/14/08 10:59 PM
Robert,
I'm so sorry that I missed the opportunity to offer my support to the team as they traveled through Ohio!
I commend all of you for making such a selfless sacrifice so as to draw attention to a very worthy cause.
Children nationwide will one day reap the joyous reward of having two fit parents thanks to your incredible efforts.
Keep up the wonderful work on behalf of our children!
Tony Fantetti Ohio Council for Fathers Rights Cincinnati OH
Tony Fantetti, Cincinnati, OH
Thanks Tony! No worries you have helped many already.
Thu. 08/14/08 04:48 PM
Sassy-
You are dead wrong in my neighborhood. Most single dads I know made the divorce decision in part becuase it was best for their children. I know several dads who have taken over primary custody role, and I hope soon to be among them. Every marriage is different. I thought of myself as a primary caregiver. I pay for my son's support twice -- once with child support and again to buy the things that should be but are not bought with support like school lunches. That being said, I would not in anyway restrict my teenage son from spendinmg time with his mother -- as long as he is getting his homework done! They should determine what their relationship is.
delphi1958, Bloomfield, MI
Thu. 08/14/08 04:29 PM
Hooray for Robert Pedersen and the other cyclists who are bicycling to Washington, D.C. to spread awareness of equal parenting rights. Not only are they pedaling more than 758 miles, they are pedaling an important message: Children Need Both Parents!
Don, Battle Creek, MI
Thanks Don - Although I sat this year out because of my own personal case and other reasons not worth mentioning. 2009 is the year!Robert Pedersen
Thu. 08/14/08 04:27 PM
You are doing a wonderful thing. I hope all is well and you have a safe trip.
Buffett99, Otsego, MI
Thu. 08/14/08 04:15 PM
The column sets forth the correct perspective. The problem is when two parents each cannot each bear their resepctive parenting responsibilities or use parenting access to leverage finances or conduct one-up-person-ship. But, children need to develop relationships with their parents that are determined by the parent and the child.
delphi1958, Bloomfield, MI
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